Hello, and welcome to Shining Moon: A Speculative Fiction Podcast, Episode 16. Today we’ll continue our series by asking questions about military science fiction and military fantasy. We’ll talk about the history of military science fiction, what it takes to write in this subgenre with authentic voice and respect.
My guests today are Derrick Boden, Jonathan Brazee, and P. A. Cornell. A fourth guest was originally included in this interview, but has been edited out.
Derrick Boden is at derrickboden.com and on Twitter as @derrickboden.
P.A. Cornell is at pacornell.com
"Don't tell me that the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass." -- Anton Chekov
Piano music for closure
Thank you for listening to Shining Moon! You can reach the host, Deborah L. Davitt, at the following social media platforms:
www.facebook.com/deborah.davitt.3
Bluesky: @deborahldavitt.bsky.social
www.edda-earth.com
Hello, and welcome to Shining Moon: A Speculative Fiction Podcast, Episode 16. Today we’ll continue our series by asking questions about military science fiction and military fantasy. We’ll talk about the history of military science fiction, what it takes to write in this subgenre with authentic voice and respect.
My guests today are Derrick Boden, Jonathan Brazee, and P. A. Cornell. A fourth guest was originally included in this interview, but has been edited out.
Derrick Boden is at derrickboden.com and on Twitter as @derrickboden.
P.A. Cornell is at pacornell.com
"Don't tell me that the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass." -- Anton Chekov
Piano music for closure
Thank you for listening to Shining Moon! You can reach the host, Deborah L. Davitt, at the following social media platforms:
www.facebook.com/deborah.davitt.3
Bluesky: @deborahldavitt.bsky.social
www.edda-earth.com
Deborah L. Davitt:
Hello and welcome to Shining Moon, a speculative fiction podcast, episode 16. I'm your host, Deborah L. Davitt. Today we'll continue our series by asking questions about military science fiction and military fantasy. We'll talk about the history of military science fiction, what it takes to write in the subgenre with an authentic voice and respect. I am personally an army brat. My father served in both Korea and Vietnam. As an adult, I worked for a naval subcontractor on documentation relating to nuclear ballistic missile submarines. and I also married into a Coast Guard family. So I have seen a bunch of different perspectives and I try to treat it all with the respect that it's due.
My guests today are Derek Bowden, Jonathan Brazee, P.A. Cornell. Let's start with some introductions. Derek Bowden's fiction has appeared in Lightspeed, Clark's World, Analog, and Elsewhere. He was a finalist for the 2023 Sturgeon Award. Derek is a writer, software developer, an adventurer, and a graduate of Clarion West class of 2019. He currently calls Boston his home, although he's lived in 14 cities spanning four continents. He is owned by two cats and one iron willed daughter. Find him at derekboden.com and on Twitter @DerekBoden. Hi, Derek, welcome to the podcast. It's a pleasure to meet you.
Derrick Boden:
Hi, it's nice to meet you as well, Deborah. How are you doing today?
Deborah L. Davitt:
Jonathan Brazee is a retired Marine infantry colonel living in Colorado Springs with his wife Kiwi and twin four-year-olds Dani and Dari. So if he sounds tired today, we will all understand why. He is a full-time hybrid writer of mostly military science fiction. He is a USA Today bestseller and two-time Nebula Award and two-time Dragon Award finalist. Hello, Jonathan. Thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate it.
jonathan:
Thank you and the two girls were on my lap not 10 minutes ago and I had to shoo them out so I could enjoy this podcast.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Awesome. So if they happen to come in, we will understand why you might go silent for a moment. or we might record their voices for posterity.
Deborah L. Davitt:
P.A. Cornell is an award-winning Chilean-Canadian author whose short fiction has appeared in numerous speculative fiction publications. In 2022, she published her sci-fi novella, Lost Cargo, which everyone should totally check out and read. This is the one-year anniversary of it, so please do go check it out. When not writing, Cornell can be found assembling intricate Lego builds while drinking ridiculous quantities of tea. For more on the author and her work, visit pacornell.com. Hello, Patti, welcome back to the podcast.
P.A. Cornell:
Good to be back.
P.A. Cornell:
Hehehehe
Deborah L. Davitt:
So
Derrick Boden:
So...
Deborah L. Davitt:
we're going to jump right into the questions. We're going to talk a little bit about, well, I've particularly remember reading Heinlein's juveniles, particularly Space Cadet with great pleasure when I was a kid. But what are some of your biggest influences in writing military science fiction and military fantasy? and we're gonna start with Jonathan. Who were some of the greats that you like to read or that have influenced you?
jonathan:
Well, probably one of the earliest, what would be considered military science fiction stories I ever read was actually H.G. Wells, called the land ironclads, which may be actually one of the first military science fiction stories as a genre, as a subgenre that was there. I mean, there was one earlier about an invasion of the UK. But I thought that was pretty fascinating. the idea of how those iron pads became kind of tanks in real life, you
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
know, years later. But for me, I think it was Gordon Dixon's Dorsi series. I mean, I read, I loved, of course, I love Timeline, the Starship Troopers. But I think the Dorsi, maybe H.B. and Piper, these were the stories that really got me going. And then later on. David Drake and of course Joe Haldeman with the forever war being the one that cemented in me my love of military science fiction.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Excellent answer. Thank you so much. Patty, what are some seminal works that you have read that have influenced you or have you?
P.A. Cornell:
Yeah, no, I have. I've been reading and also watching military science fiction my whole life, because the film industry does a lot of it as well. But yeah, books
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yes, they
P.A. Cornell:
wise,
Deborah L. Davitt:
do.
P.A. Cornell:
like a lot of the ones Jonathan mentioned, like Starship Troopers, for sure. Ender's Game was a big one for me in my teen years.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
P.A. Cornell:
I just loved it. It was my favorite book for a long time. It's been dethroned, but I'm not going to throw shade here. But. But yeah, things like that. I also, my dad is like Dave, very much into history and a lot of history is, you know, believe it or not about war.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Well, yes.
P.A. Cornell:
So,
Derrick Boden:
Yes.
P.A. Cornell:
I grew up watching a lot of war documentaries and things like that. So that also has influenced, you know, this and my interest in history and war history as well, which I also
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
P.A. Cornell:
love a good war doc, even though my own personal
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yes.
P.A. Cornell:
feelings about war are maybe not so cheerleader-y. I do like the docs.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Okay. How about you, Derek? What are some of your influences?
Derrick Boden:
Yeah, great question. Growing up, I wouldn't say that I read a lot of military science fiction. I read a lot of stuff that I think probably was on the edge of it. I know that some of them have already been mentioned. I read Ender's Game growing up and I found it interesting. I was never even remotely interested in any Highland. I found it largely nationalistic kind of feel and that never really sat right with me. But I did love on I don't want to say on the other side, but from a different perspective, a lot of the more classic works that were coming out during the Cold War that were more critical of the escalation of tensions and think pieces, I guess, in a way about what various types of technology could lead to in terms of societal decay and... and Armageddon and that sort of thing. I think Philip K. Dick had some really interesting ones that probably most people might not consider military science fiction, but they did take place. They involved military. There's one called Second Variety, I remember, about these clones. That was very, it's a novelette, I think, or a novella that was very impactful. Turtle Dove wrote some. Most of my, I think, my influences that I would consider military science fiction are a bit more contemporary. I think one that stands out the most to me is Peter Watts. His work was, he was very prolific in the, I think in the early 2000s and the 2010s. I haven't seen as much from him lately, but he's written some really incredible, thoughtful short fiction in particular. He wrote a piece called Collateral. A lot of his work. involves the ethics of war, or lack thereof in many cases, and how science fiction technology, cybernetics, artificial intelligence impacts our world from an ethical perspective in terms of how we engage with military and how we interact. Another contemporary that is kind of across the spectrum, that's really great, that does some similar types of things as Aliette de Baudard. She writes more sort of far-flung space opera style military science fiction, but with a very gentle touch and I think is very interesting, an interesting perspective. And then just to throw in one example of something that I would say that a more contemporary influence that is in the fantasy side, since I know that doesn't get as much discussion,
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah, it doesn't.
Derrick Boden:
is Seth Dickinson's The Traitor Baru, Baru Cormorant series, which is really an exceptional fiction. I admit I've only read the first one. There are three, but it is definitely in many regards military in that there are a lot of military logistics. a sort of military type individual, but it is a second world fantasy. It does not take place in this world. And the focus is largely on the negative aspects of war and the aftermath and the people that are forgotten in the sort of largely nationalistic sweep throughs of some of these types of military campaigns. So that was a very long-winded
Deborah L. Davitt:
All
Derrick Boden:
answer,
Deborah L. Davitt:
right.
Derrick Boden:
but that's just some examples.
P.A. Cornell:
Thanks for watching!
Deborah L. Davitt:
No, I am all here. I'm here to listen and to ask more questions which I will go about and do now. So what does it take to write military sci-fi with authenticity and respect? And I'm gonna start with Jonathan on that.
jonathan:
That's a really good question because there are a lot of people from a varied backgrounds who are able to write excellent military science fiction.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
I think it helps that if you have served and I believe it helps if you have served in combat because there are certain seminal things that affect you. that when they are reflected on the written word, tends to give a sense of verisimilitude that's hard to get, it's more difficult to get if you have not had those experiences. However.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
There are ways around that because there are plenty of people, David Weber has never served the day in combat in his life, but he is able to grasp the naval side of battles and the tension and that type of thing fairly well and very pretty successfully, obviously. So there are things that you can do. One of them is kind of what David has said, watching a lot of documentaries. If you watch documentaries. that shows actual combat and you're kind of limited from, I mean, there are some real films from World War I on, but there's been quite a bit of film of actual combat. If you watch those kinds of things, some movies like Statement Private Ryan can get you a feel. These are things that will help. First of all, you have to have a story. which everyone
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
I'm up with. You have to actually have a story and you have to have characters. But to really make it military science fiction, I think you either have to watch it, you have to experience it, watch it, read it, or talk to people who have been through it. Go down to the VFW,
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
your local VFW, say the tab, bar tab's on me, and you will get eight hours of... stories, not necessarily just combat, but at the time that the lieutenant went in the outhouse and a mortar round landed on top and he was there he was sitting there with his utility trousers around his ankles. You know those type of things like that are the things that particularly readers who have been in the military, which are a huge portion of the readership, those are the ones that go ah. This writer knows it. This writer understands it. So
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
I think with those four things, I think you have to get at least some of them in order to write what I think is real military science fiction, not space opera. And
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
we'll probably be talking about that later. But there's a huge, huge difference between space opera and military science fiction. Just because you're in, just because someone is in the military or they're in spaceships or power armor or whatever doesn't make it military science fiction. Anybody
Deborah L. Davitt:
Oh
jonathan:
could
Deborah L. Davitt:
indeed.
jonathan:
write space opera. But to write military science fiction, I think you have to do a little bit of either experience it or do a little bit of digging.
Deborah L. Davitt:
I'm going to switch to Patty now. If you've never served or you've never lived with someone who served, how do you go about achieving that authenticity of voice and detail? Because when I read your story, you absolutely did get it. And
P.A. Cornell:
Oh, thanks.
Deborah L. Davitt:
I thought that you did a wonderful job with it. So how do you go about achieving that?
P.A. Cornell:
I mean, basically, yeah, I'm going to agree with what Jonathan said about his four things. That definitely helps. You know, having an interest makes it a lot easier to retain all this information, for instance, military jargon, that sort of thing. You know, and, you know, just knowing how to research is like a great tool for science fiction in general or really just for writing in general. So because they always say you know write what you know but it's really more
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
P.A. Cornell:
write what you know how to research.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
P.A. Cornell:
And I'm a great researcher I did a lot in other aspects before you know
Derrick Boden:
Thanks for watching!
P.A. Cornell:
before I was even publishing fiction I've had to do a lot of research because I was a journalist before so that's kind of a strength. But beyond that, I also think, as in pretty much any story writing, it comes down to empathy. Because empathy helps you see kind of both sides of the conflict. Because when you're writing military science fiction, there's often a lot of like political undertone and stuff, which again, it helps to know like history and our own political history in real life. Because often it's portraying aspects of that, if not, you know, a literal translation of it. So even if you don't agree with both sides, being able to see both sides can help you write it, I think, because you're going to have to write kind of all aspects of it and maybe lean heavily towards whatever you're trying to convey through your story. But I think you have to do a little bit of both, which in a sense I think is what actors do when they're preparing a character. For a writer, it's very
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
P.A. Cornell:
much... the same thing, you know, you have to kind of be able to get into the character's heads and think, what would this person be doing in this situation? How would they react to it? You know, so that's, that's how I do it.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Derek, same question, since I know that you haven't served, how do you go about, because again, your story was rich with detail without being overwhelming. How did you go about achieving this?
Derrick Boden:
Well, thank you. I guess I'll start with that specific that you mentioned. The detail, I think, is one of the most important elements for me. In any type of fiction, but in particular science fiction, I think striving for the level of specificity in details is an important aspect of getting that versimilitude. I think, and to Patty's point, I think research can help you get those details beyond just the basic understanding of how an experience may be or what type of people are involved in a conflict or a situation or what types of things may happen. The very specific, and I think Jonathan talked about that too in terms of the latrine situation where the finding specific. believable details that you can focus on brings a reader to that point and makes them not only feel like they're there, but it makes them, if you do it well, it makes them trust you as a writer to guide them through the story whether or not you have the slightest idea what you're actually talking about which I rarely do and so To me, I think that's the important thing secondarily If you have anybody to bounce ideas off, who has had experiences that are either direct or tangential. My cousin was a captain and served multiple tours in Iraq, running convoys. She has been indispensable in terms of me asking questions, for example, about how things are or just listening to stories that she's told
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
on that side of my family, actually. I have a number of... people who served in prior generations as well, and I grew up listening to many of their stories. And I'm sure that many of their stories influenced my largely anti-war stance in many regards, but it also has helped me because as a kid, when you're listening to stories, you cling to specific details, and those details you don't realize at the time maybe, but can help you as a writer when you grow up to
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
drop in. here and there, respectfully, obviously, you wouldn't want to drop in details that someone might not want you to put into a story, but details that can really bring a person there and hopefully make it feel realistic as well to people who have served because some of these stories are informed by real people.
Deborah L. Davitt:
going to tell a funny story because two of you have brought up acronyms and the military love of acronym. And this is when I was working at a defense contractor and there was apparently a disgruntled contractor who had left the job because we had a list of acronyms that I was supposed to be reading through. Most of them were the ones that you would normally expect to find in our work between the nuclear ballistic missile submarines and the firing mechanisms and the conduits and everything like that. All the things I have been used to seeing in our documentation until I found Snafu, which I was like,
. . . .
of acronyms and jargon that was going to be disseminated to five or six other contractors. He says, thank you for bringing this to my attention. We will take care of this.
Deborah L. Davitt:
I'm
P.A. Cornell:
Hehehehe
Deborah L. Davitt:
like,
Derrick Boden:
This is great.
Deborah L. Davitt:
I'm sure that you will.
P.A. Cornell:
Ha ha.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah, that was that's one of my good stories from that particular time. That was that was not my favorite job. We're going to go ahead and move into the second part of our agenda, which is talking about the stories that you each have gone ahead and sent to me. And the first one I'm going to talk about is Derek Bowden's giant robot and the infinite sunset, which appeared in diabolical plots, number 38A. In this flash piece, a giant military robot, and he's literally called Giant Robot throughout the story, so you can definitely tell what he is, has been given the ability by its programmer to seek out beauty and record it. That programmer has since been court-martialed and has taken her own life as a result. Giant Robot now seeks the companionship of a similar mind, but is unable to find it. Someone with its programmer's passcode attempts to reprogram it and nearly succeeds. but something inside still remains of his programmer and that tiny spark of humanity triumphs in the end. Can you talk to me a little bit about the story's inception, which I believe began with an image, which is just lovely, because a lot of my stories start with that.
Derrick Boden:
Yeah, I came across an image, some original artwork online. I sometimes I look for wallpaper art for my computer to for something to stare at when I'm thinking of ideas, I guess. And this one in particular showed this big kind of hulking, perhaps unrealistically proportioned robot in a battlefield with these tiny glowing eyes. And it struck me as a very sad looking, and that got me thinking a bit about how he anthropomorphize robots and technology and how that can be detrimental in many regards, especially in regards to things like war machines. And that can be thinking a little bit more about, well, what if it really is sad? What could make a robot sad on the battlefield? And one thing that came to mind was guilt, because that is a thing that makes some humans sad on a battlefield. And the story just sort of grew out of that. It was a fairly free flowing. I am an outliner in general, but this story was not outlined at first. The first draft was basically the outline. And so the concept, I guess, came from the sort of I was trying to take a sidestep from the more well trodden Emotions being overlaid upon robots or robots in particular in this case military robots gaining some level of emotional sentience and putting it more into perspective of the individual that imbued these traits and characteristics
jonathan:
Take care.
Derrick Boden:
into the robot and what she,
Derrick Boden:
what her goal might be and how she might be, and how that might end up playing out. And in this particular case, the way it turned out is that it felt like her reasons, although I don't really the way it seems is that it's an act of protest, but a different type of protest than simply turning your back or walking away from the battlefield, but rather trying to instill the more positive aspects of humanity upon something that has up until this point only been given. what I would consider perhaps the more negative aspects of humanity, that are capacity for violence.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Obviously it is a piece of military science fiction because it deals with a military robot. It deals with the seek and destroy algorithms and permutations and everything like that. And you've already covered my second question, which is what did you want audience to take away from the story? So thank you
Derrick Boden:
Thank
Deborah L. Davitt:
for that very comprehensive answer
Derrick Boden:
you
Deborah L. Davitt:
and
Derrick Boden:
for that very
Deborah L. Davitt:
I
Derrick Boden:
comprehensive
Deborah L. Davitt:
will move
Derrick Boden:
answer.
Deborah L. Davitt:
to the next person.
Derrick Boden:
Sure. Thank you. I got ahead of myself there perhaps a little.
Deborah L. Davitt:
It's
Deborah L. Davitt:
a little bit, I enjoyed listening.
Derrick Boden:
Excellent.
Deborah L. Davitt:
We're gonna move to Jonathan Brazee and we're gonna talk about your story, Weaponized Math, which appeared in the Expanding Universe, volume three. I had the great pleasure of reading this one several years ago and if I'm correct, I used my Nebula nomination for that year on it and I think that was one of the ones that was a finalist.
jonathan:
Yes.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah,
jonathan:
So thank you
Deborah L. Davitt:
in
jonathan:
for
Deborah L. Davitt:
this
jonathan:
your
Deborah L. Davitt:
story,
jonathan:
work.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Gracie
jonathan:
Thank you
Deborah L. Davitt:
Medicine,
jonathan:
for your nomination.
P.A. Cornell:
Yeah.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Oh, it was a fabulous story. In this story, Gracie Medicine Crowe is a sniper with 41 kills stuck on a routine overwatch position while babysitting a new sniper recruit. The situation should have been dull and ordinary and is until she recognizes that one of the prospective targets she had mapped out as reading a blanked out screen reader, an attack is imminent. She and her newbie sniper have to weaponize math. Every variable from the spin of the planet is gravity, the wind speed, their height difference to the target. All of that physics combines to a specific set of variables that they have to compute with or without actual computer assistance to save the lives of their fellow marines. The prose is crisp, the action clean, the voice undeniably authentic. I highly recommend anyone who is out there to read this one because I love this story and I loved re-reading it. I loved rediscovering it. So what gave you the idea for this specific engagement, this specific moment in time? Did something like this come out of your personal history or what?
jonathan:
Well, first of all, I just thought this is actually the certificate for open eyes math.
Deborah L. Davitt:
I'm seeing this.
Derrick Boden:
Very
jonathan:
I just
Derrick Boden:
nice.
jonathan:
thought of that as you were talking about it. In a way, actually, it's a little bit like Derek when he saw the picture, which I thought I went through your whole story and I read that at the bottom. There was a picture and I... And that just made it sink into me, Derek. It really came into my brain. And this was a little bit similar in the fact that I had written a book that's done very well called Sniper and Gracie is a character in there. And then I came across a plaque, it was online, but it was a plaque that said something to the effect of that. Being a being a snipe in order to be a sniper you have to be able to weaponize math and that Saying really stuck with me and I had a lot of
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
people who had fallen in love with Gracie One of my readers and they want more and more so I said well I have to write a story and With the title weaponized math and since I had Gracie and my readers wanted more Gracie I came up with the story now the specifics of the story We're not from any one mission, although I have written. specific missions. There's a mission in Ramadi that was Army and I have talked to the team leader of that mission.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
I actually went through it with him and wrote a story on that. So I have done that but this was more of a accumulation of a bunch of different missions. I was as an officer, I was never a sniper but I could troll snipers and I went to sniper, scout sniper, Marine Scout sniper school and I was a competitive marksman. So a lot of my own experiences came in there and I put together other missions that actually happened. This one in particular was one of my snipers who had a very similar situation. Now the whole story with the a gunner, the assistant
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
sniper,
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah.
jonathan:
that was whole cloth. that
Deborah L. Davitt:
Okay.
jonathan:
just wanted to personalize it more. Because while a lot of the people who read military science fiction, particularly who read my kind of military science fiction, I'm pretty far over away from space opera
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yes.
jonathan:
where all my stuff tends to be very, very realistic. And I love space opera. I love
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
that, so I love. I love Star Wars and Star Trek and all that kind of stuff, but my writing is far more realistic. It's real military science fiction. I mean everything is on a sliding scale.
Deborah L. Davitt:
As long as continuum.
jonathan:
Mine is over here. And my kind of readers do like the jargon, the details on the weapons. It's maybe not as bad
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
as gun porn, but it's...
Deborah L. Davitt:
Haha
jonathan:
gets to be there and they want to know the specifics. They want to know if you're talking about a sniper ranges, what kind of round is doing that because depending on
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
the round, it's going to be affected by the conditions more, the environmental conditions,
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
stuff like that. So to get to your, right to your question, This was a sort of a accumulation of various stories and written as a present to my readers based on an emoji I saw, not an emoji, a meme, gee,
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
gotta know my words, on a meme I
Derrick Boden:
Hehehe
jonathan:
saw online.
Deborah L. Davitt:
It does help as a writer to know your words.
jonathan:
Yeah, it kind of does, though.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah, it's
Derrick Boden:
It's
Deborah L. Davitt:
hard
Derrick Boden:
just harder
Deborah L. Davitt:
when we're
Derrick Boden:
when
Deborah L. Davitt:
doing
Derrick Boden:
we're
Deborah L. Davitt:
it
Derrick Boden:
doing
Deborah L. Davitt:
out
Derrick Boden:
it
Deborah L. Davitt:
loud
Derrick Boden:
out loud
Deborah L. Davitt:
and not
Derrick Boden:
and
Deborah L. Davitt:
through
Derrick Boden:
not for...
Deborah L. Davitt:
our fingertips
jonathan:
Thank
Deborah L. Davitt:
directly
jonathan:
you.
Deborah L. Davitt:
into the computer. It's harder than people think to talk out
P.A. Cornell:
So
Deborah L. Davitt:
loud.
P.A. Cornell:
hard.
Derrick Boden:
Um,
Deborah L. Davitt:
Oh yes,
Derrick Boden:
oh
Deborah L. Davitt:
this
Derrick Boden:
yes.
Deborah L. Davitt:
is
Derrick Boden:
This
Deborah L. Davitt:
one of
Derrick Boden:
is
Deborah L. Davitt:
the
Derrick Boden:
one
Deborah L. Davitt:
reasons
Derrick Boden:
of the reasons
Deborah L. Davitt:
why
Derrick Boden:
why
Deborah L. Davitt:
I could
Derrick Boden:
I could
Deborah L. Davitt:
never
Derrick Boden:
never
Deborah L. Davitt:
actually
Derrick Boden:
actually
Deborah L. Davitt:
do
Derrick Boden:
do
Deborah L. Davitt:
dictation
Derrick Boden:
dictation.
Deborah L. Davitt:
software
jonathan:
I
Derrick Boden:
Where
jonathan:
don't believe
Deborah L. Davitt:
is
jonathan:
that.
Deborah L. Davitt:
I would
jonathan:
You...
Derrick Boden:
I
Deborah L. Davitt:
sit
Derrick Boden:
would
Deborah L. Davitt:
there
Derrick Boden:
sit
Deborah L. Davitt:
and
Derrick Boden:
there
Deborah L. Davitt:
I would
Derrick Boden:
and
Deborah L. Davitt:
stutter,
Derrick Boden:
I would stutter,
Deborah L. Davitt:
I would
Derrick Boden:
I would
Deborah L. Davitt:
go
Derrick Boden:
go
Deborah L. Davitt:
um,
Derrick Boden:
um,
jonathan:
You'll
Deborah L. Davitt:
I
jonathan:
be
Deborah L. Davitt:
would
jonathan:
both.
Derrick Boden:
I would say something.
Deborah L. Davitt:
say, yeah,
Derrick Boden:
Yeah,
Deborah L. Davitt:
I don't know
Derrick Boden:
I don't
Deborah L. Davitt:
how
Derrick Boden:
know
Deborah L. Davitt:
people
Derrick Boden:
how people
Deborah L. Davitt:
do it.
Derrick Boden:
do it.
Deborah L. Davitt:
It's phenomenal
Derrick Boden:
It's phenomenal
Deborah L. Davitt:
to me
Derrick Boden:
to
Deborah L. Davitt:
that
Derrick Boden:
me that
Deborah L. Davitt:
people
Derrick Boden:
people
Deborah L. Davitt:
can.
Derrick Boden:
can't. Um.
Deborah L. Davitt:
We're going to switch to P.A. Cornell with The Body Remembers, which appeared in Dark Matter Presents Monstrous Futures. This is characteristically dark story
Deborah L. Davitt:
bordering on horror in which soldiers regenerate from any number of horrific injuries in battle, still feel the pain after the regeneration is complete, and have no way out of their situation . . . .
P.A. Cornell:
Well, this is also going to sound dark. I was sitting around thinking about pain, of all things. I don't actually remember if I was in pain at the time, maybe. But anyway, I was thinking about pain and how like both physical and emotional pain and how it can basically linger,
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
P.A. Cornell:
even after you've quote unquote healed, or, you
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
P.A. Cornell:
know, or if it's emotional pain after that moment has passed or whatever. it can still kind of come back to haunt you later. So that kind of led to thinking about people who live like with invisible disabilities and ailments like that of which I am one
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
P.A. Cornell:
and how it's so common that you won't even be believed even by doctors that
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
P.A. Cornell:
something is wrong. So that kind of combined with also PTSD. which I don't have, but I was thinking about like all these things relating to each other. So, I mean, I guess just the military science fiction part of it just kind of came together because a soldier telling this story seemed like a really like ideal point of view character for the situation. So what I was really going for was just to show this lasting effect, how, you know, The pain is one thing. We all know pain. We've all been through it, but how sometimes it can, it's what comes after the pain that is almost worse in some ways. And of course, it's also like
Deborah L. Davitt:
Well, I thought
P.A. Cornell:
a
Deborah L. Davitt:
it
P.A. Cornell:
commentary.
Deborah L. Davitt:
was a fabulous story.
P.A. Cornell:
Oh, thank you. It's also like a commentary on war and how we sacrifice the few for the many. So
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
P.A. Cornell:
yeah, that's kind of where that all came from.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah, I was reflecting a little bit on invisible disabilities and things like that myself in my story this year, which appeared in Lightspeed, which is Philoctetes in Kabul. And yeah, I can definitely see where you're coming from on that one.
Derrick Boden:
Yes.
Deborah L. Davitt:
All right. In the interest of time, we're going to move to our next segment, which in which we're gonna talk and move out of our mutual admiration society and into the
P.A. Cornell:
Thanks for watching!
Deborah L. Davitt:
talking about another story that we have all read, which will be the Light Brigade by Cameron Hurley, which appeared in Light Speed November 2015, issue 66. And this story, which is recursively written and just wonderful. A corporate soldier is turned literally into light to attack targets in alien controlled zones of Earth, which have been regenerated and made into free zones where the aliens live. But the aliens also supposedly took out an entire city, San Paulo, and was called the San Paulo Blink. The longer the city, I'm sorry, the longer this soldier travels as light, the more they're convinced that what they're seeing is the future during transit. And they eventually learn the awful truth that they're destroying cities not because the aliens are evil, but because they dare to live free and well. They wind up using their time travel abilities to save the entire population of Sao Paulo and other areas that would have been hit by the light brigade, saving millions of lives and taking them simply elsewhere in an open-ended ending that actually works. I usually don't like open-ended endings. I usually
Derrick Boden:
I usually
Deborah L. Davitt:
find
Derrick Boden:
find
Deborah L. Davitt:
them
Derrick Boden:
them
Deborah L. Davitt:
sort of
Derrick Boden:
sort
Deborah L. Davitt:
a cop-out,
Derrick Boden:
of popped
Deborah L. Davitt:
but
Derrick Boden:
out,
Deborah L. Davitt:
this
Derrick Boden:
but
Deborah L. Davitt:
particular
Derrick Boden:
this particular
Deborah L. Davitt:
one worked.
Derrick Boden:
one worked.
Deborah L. Davitt:
What did
Derrick Boden:
What
Deborah L. Davitt:
you
Derrick Boden:
did
Deborah L. Davitt:
think
Derrick Boden:
you
Deborah L. Davitt:
of
Derrick Boden:
think
Deborah L. Davitt:
the
Derrick Boden:
of
Deborah L. Davitt:
story
Derrick Boden:
the story
Deborah L. Davitt:
and what
Derrick Boden:
and
Deborah L. Davitt:
makes
Derrick Boden:
what makes
Deborah L. Davitt:
a story
Derrick Boden:
the story
Deborah L. Davitt:
military
Derrick Boden:
military
Deborah L. Davitt:
sci-fi
Derrick Boden:
sci-fi
Deborah L. Davitt:
as opposed
Derrick Boden:
as opposed
Deborah L. Davitt:
to
Derrick Boden:
to
Deborah L. Davitt:
non-denominational
Derrick Boden:
non-denominational
Deborah L. Davitt:
sci-fi?
Derrick Boden:
sci-fi?
Deborah L. Davitt:
And I'm
Derrick Boden:
And
Deborah L. Davitt:
going to
Derrick Boden:
I'm
Deborah L. Davitt:
start
Derrick Boden:
going
Deborah L. Davitt:
with
Derrick Boden:
to start
Deborah L. Davitt:
Jonathan.
Derrick Boden:
with Joe.
Deborah L. Davitt:
What did
Derrick Boden:
What
Deborah L. Davitt:
you
Derrick Boden:
did
Deborah L. Davitt:
think
Derrick Boden:
you
Deborah L. Davitt:
of
Derrick Boden:
think
Deborah L. Davitt:
the story?
Derrick Boden:
of the story?
jonathan:
and you have the first of the sorrows of for that first but i like the story uh... i'd like the idea of being able to uh... i'd never i mean i know we've got uh... star trek being up and down uh...
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
but the fact that they're being uh... turned into white i thought was interesting uh... and you know that was a and uh... how that would react the way the body is coming apart and the pain and all that kind
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
of stuff. I really like that. And I'll admit, usually I could figure out stories really early. It took me a little bit to figure out who the aliens were.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah.
jonathan:
I was a third or a halfway through the story before I realized who they were. But here's the part that you guys may not agree with me. I don't think it's military science fiction.
Deborah L. Davitt:
I don't think it is either.
jonathan:
Oh, okay. You do agree with me.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Haha
jonathan:
I think it's a great story. I love reading the story, but it's not military science fiction to my point. Military science fiction, to me and to a lot of people who write about it, the key aspect of it is the military.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
how the military affects the plot, the environment, and everything else. Whereas just having a person in the military is setting up the story. It's not necessarily military science fiction. But love the story. I thought it was clever. I thought it was well written. And I'm glad
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
that was suggested.
Deborah L. Davitt:
All right, Patty, I think you were the one who suggested this story. What did
P.A. Cornell:
Yeah.
Deborah L. Davitt:
you like about it?
P.A. Cornell:
Well, I think initially it was just kind of the whole, oh, they get turned into light. That's so cool. You know, that's
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
P.A. Cornell:
the coolness factor of that, which also reminded me a little bit of altered carbon, and they, you know,
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
P.A. Cornell:
kind of beam into new bodies and stuff. So it started with that, but I think, like, once you read it and I've reread it and I bought the novel and read the novel to,
Deborah L. Davitt:
Oh, there's
P.A. Cornell:
you
Deborah L. Davitt:
a novel.
P.A. Cornell:
know,
Derrick Boden:
Yeah, it's very
P.A. Cornell:
Yes,
Derrick Boden:
good.
P.A. Cornell:
there's a novel that she wrote based on the short story. And it's great. So I've read both more than once and it's, you know, it goes beyond the coolness to the story where it's, they realize they're participating in something that's, you know, wrong, and they have to either choose to live with that or do something about it. So. Um, that, uh, like just the story itself really worked for me. I love the voice throw. Dave was talking
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah,
P.A. Cornell:
about, you
Deborah L. Davitt:
the voice is
P.A. Cornell:
know,
Deborah L. Davitt:
wonderful.
P.A. Cornell:
the voice works from line one. So, I mean, it's totally my kind of story.
Deborah L. Davitt:
I loved the voice, particularly some of the some of the pull quotes like we were fucking paladins we were light,
P.A. Cornell:
Yeah.
Deborah L. Davitt:
things like that
Derrick Boden:
like
Deborah L. Davitt:
to me just that
Derrick Boden:
that. That
Deborah L. Davitt:
to me
Derrick Boden:
to
Deborah L. Davitt:
encapsulated.
Derrick Boden:
me encapsulated
Deborah L. Davitt:
We are
Derrick Boden:
we
Deborah L. Davitt:
on
Derrick Boden:
are
Deborah L. Davitt:
the side
Derrick Boden:
on the side
Deborah L. Davitt:
of we
Derrick Boden:
of
Deborah L. Davitt:
are on the
Derrick Boden:
righteousness.
Deborah L. Davitt:
side of righteousness we know
Derrick Boden:
We
Deborah L. Davitt:
that
Derrick Boden:
know
Deborah L. Davitt:
we're
Derrick Boden:
that we're
Deborah L. Davitt:
right
Derrick Boden:
white
Deborah L. Davitt:
and then
Derrick Boden:
and dense.
Deborah L. Davitt:
you start to get that undercurrent of maybe we're not.
P.A. Cornell:
Yeah,
Deborah L. Davitt:
And then the
P.A. Cornell:
for
Deborah L. Davitt:
undercurrent
P.A. Cornell:
sure.
Deborah L. Davitt:
gets stronger and it becomes an undertow and it builds throughout the story and it's really well is well developed and it's well designed. So
P.A. Cornell:
Yeah.
Deborah L. Davitt:
kudos to her for the build.
jonathan:
And if I could
P.A. Cornell:
Yeah,
jonathan:
interrupt
P.A. Cornell:
Cameron Hurley is great at doing that.
jonathan:
that little arc of we are right to maybe we aren't right, that part actually is very military.
P.A. Cornell:
Yeah,
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
P.A. Cornell:
yeah,
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yes.
P.A. Cornell:
that
Derrick Boden:
Yes.
P.A. Cornell:
to me felt very, I guess we could call it soft military sci-fi, make a distinction, then there's hard military sci-fi. But
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah, there
Derrick Boden:
Yeah,
Deborah L. Davitt:
definitely
Derrick Boden:
there
P.A. Cornell:
yeah.
Derrick Boden:
definitely
Deborah L. Davitt:
is.
Derrick Boden:
is.
Deborah L. Davitt:
There is a continuum. I mean,
P.A. Cornell:
Yeah.
Deborah L. Davitt:
when I was writing fan
Derrick Boden:
I'm writing
Deborah L. Davitt:
fiction,
Derrick Boden:
fan fiction,
Deborah L. Davitt:
and
Derrick Boden:
and I
Deborah L. Davitt:
I don't
Derrick Boden:
don't
Deborah L. Davitt:
roll your
Derrick Boden:
roll your
Deborah L. Davitt:
eyes,
Derrick Boden:
eyes,
Deborah L. Davitt:
I did,
Derrick Boden:
I do.
Deborah L. Davitt:
and
P.A. Cornell:
Ha ha.
Derrick Boden:
And
Deborah L. Davitt:
it was
Derrick Boden:
it was based on the Mass
Deborah L. Davitt:
based on the Mass Effect
Derrick Boden:
Effect
Deborah L. Davitt:
universe,
Derrick Boden:
universe.
Deborah L. Davitt:
and
Derrick Boden:
And.
Deborah L. Davitt:
that's where I cut my teeth on writing
Derrick Boden:
writing
Deborah L. Davitt:
at great
Derrick Boden:
at great
Deborah L. Davitt:
length
Derrick Boden:
length
Deborah L. Davitt:
about
Derrick Boden:
about
Deborah L. Davitt:
things
Derrick Boden:
things
Deborah L. Davitt:
like
Derrick Boden:
like
Deborah L. Davitt:
that.
Derrick Boden:
that.
Deborah L. Davitt:
And
Derrick Boden:
And
Deborah L. Davitt:
while
Derrick Boden:
while
Deborah L. Davitt:
it is
Derrick Boden:
it
Deborah L. Davitt:
a
Derrick Boden:
is
Deborah L. Davitt:
space
Derrick Boden:
a space-opening
Deborah L. Davitt:
opera universe,
Derrick Boden:
universe,
Deborah L. Davitt:
I
Derrick Boden:
I
Deborah L. Davitt:
took
Derrick Boden:
took
Deborah L. Davitt:
that opportunity
Derrick Boden:
that opportunity
Deborah L. Davitt:
to
Derrick Boden:
to
Deborah L. Davitt:
make it
Derrick Boden:
make
Deborah L. Davitt:
much
Derrick Boden:
it much
Deborah L. Davitt:
more
Derrick Boden:
more
Deborah L. Davitt:
mill sci-fi.
Derrick Boden:
sci-fi
Deborah L. Davitt:
because
Derrick Boden:
because
P.A. Cornell:
Hmm.
Deborah L. Davitt:
I was
Derrick Boden:
I was
Deborah L. Davitt:
much more
Derrick Boden:
much
Deborah L. Davitt:
interested
Derrick Boden:
more interested
Deborah L. Davitt:
in the
Derrick Boden:
in the
Deborah L. Davitt:
effects
Derrick Boden:
effects
Deborah L. Davitt:
of
Derrick Boden:
of
Deborah L. Davitt:
combat
Derrick Boden:
combat
Deborah L. Davitt:
on people
Derrick Boden:
on people
Deborah L. Davitt:
and
Derrick Boden:
and
Deborah L. Davitt:
on
Derrick Boden:
on
Deborah L. Davitt:
showing
Derrick Boden:
showing
Deborah L. Davitt:
realistic
Derrick Boden:
realistic
Deborah L. Davitt:
engagements
Derrick Boden:
engagements
Deborah L. Davitt:
using
Derrick Boden:
using
Deborah L. Davitt:
the technology
Derrick Boden:
the technology
Deborah L. Davitt:
that they
Derrick Boden:
that
Deborah L. Davitt:
had
Derrick Boden:
they
Deborah L. Davitt:
available,
Derrick Boden:
had available
Deborah L. Davitt:
which were
Derrick Boden:
for
Deborah L. Davitt:
the mass
Derrick Boden:
the mass
Deborah L. Davitt:
drivers
Derrick Boden:
drivers
Deborah L. Davitt:
and the mass
Derrick Boden:
and
Deborah L. Davitt:
effect
Derrick Boden:
the mass effects of
Deborah L. Davitt:
propelled
Derrick Boden:
propelled
Deborah L. Davitt:
rifles
Derrick Boden:
white.
Deborah L. Davitt:
and so on and so forth. I was far
Derrick Boden:
I
Deborah L. Davitt:
more
Derrick Boden:
was far
Deborah L. Davitt:
interested
Derrick Boden:
more interested
Deborah L. Davitt:
in
Derrick Boden:
in
Deborah L. Davitt:
what happens
Derrick Boden:
what happens
Deborah L. Davitt:
to people
Derrick Boden:
to people
Deborah L. Davitt:
as a
Derrick Boden:
as
Deborah L. Davitt:
result
Derrick Boden:
a result
Deborah L. Davitt:
of this
Derrick Boden:
of this
Deborah L. Davitt:
than I
Derrick Boden:
than
Deborah L. Davitt:
was
Derrick Boden:
I was
Deborah L. Davitt:
in,
Derrick Boden:
in,
Deborah L. Davitt:
well,
Derrick Boden:
well,
Deborah L. Davitt:
And
Derrick Boden:
and
Deborah L. Davitt:
I
Derrick Boden:
I also
Deborah L. Davitt:
also
Derrick Boden:
had
Deborah L. Davitt:
had naval
Derrick Boden:
naval
Deborah L. Davitt:
engagements,
Derrick Boden:
engagements
Deborah L. Davitt:
I had all
Derrick Boden:
and
Deborah L. Davitt:
sorts
Derrick Boden:
all sorts
Deborah L. Davitt:
of things
Derrick Boden:
of things
Deborah L. Davitt:
that
Derrick Boden:
that
Deborah L. Davitt:
went on.
Derrick Boden:
went on. What you can
Deborah L. Davitt:
What you can
Derrick Boden:
do
Deborah L. Davitt:
do with
Derrick Boden:
with... with
Deborah L. Davitt:
a jump
Derrick Boden:
a jump
Deborah L. Davitt:
gate.
Derrick Boden:
gate.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Can
P.A. Cornell:
Mm-hmm.
Deborah L. Davitt:
you
Derrick Boden:
Can
Deborah L. Davitt:
use a
Derrick Boden:
you
Deborah L. Davitt:
jump
Derrick Boden:
use a
Deborah L. Davitt:
gate
Derrick Boden:
jump
Deborah L. Davitt:
as
Derrick Boden:
gate
Deborah L. Davitt:
a weapon?
Derrick Boden:
as a weapon?
Deborah L. Davitt:
Absolutely,
Derrick Boden:
Absolutely
Deborah L. Davitt:
you can
Derrick Boden:
you
Deborah L. Davitt:
use
Derrick Boden:
can
Deborah L. Davitt:
a jump
Derrick Boden:
use
Deborah L. Davitt:
gate
Derrick Boden:
a jump
Deborah L. Davitt:
as a
Derrick Boden:
gate
Deborah L. Davitt:
weapon.
Derrick Boden:
as a weapon.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Why they
Derrick Boden:
Why
Deborah L. Davitt:
don't
Derrick Boden:
they
Deborah L. Davitt:
do
Derrick Boden:
don't
Deborah L. Davitt:
it
Derrick Boden:
do it
Deborah L. Davitt:
in the Mass
Derrick Boden:
in the
Deborah L. Davitt:
Effect
Derrick Boden:
Mass Effect
Deborah L. Davitt:
series
Derrick Boden:
series
Deborah L. Davitt:
is because
Derrick Boden:
is because
Deborah L. Davitt:
they
Derrick Boden:
they
Deborah L. Davitt:
don't
Derrick Boden:
don't
Deborah L. Davitt:
want
Derrick Boden:
want
Deborah L. Davitt:
to.
Derrick Boden:
to.
Deborah L. Davitt:
But you
Derrick Boden:
But
Deborah L. Davitt:
can
Derrick Boden:
you
Deborah L. Davitt:
absolutely
Derrick Boden:
can absolutely
Deborah L. Davitt:
take
Derrick Boden:
take
Deborah L. Davitt:
something
Derrick Boden:
something
Deborah L. Davitt:
that
Derrick Boden:
that
Deborah L. Davitt:
takes
Derrick Boden:
takes
Deborah L. Davitt:
light
Derrick Boden:
light
Deborah L. Davitt:
and matter
Derrick Boden:
and matter
Deborah L. Davitt:
and
Derrick Boden:
and
Deborah L. Davitt:
pours
Derrick Boden:
pours
Deborah L. Davitt:
them
Derrick Boden:
them into
Deborah L. Davitt:
into a system.
Derrick Boden:
a system.
Deborah L. Davitt:
You can
Derrick Boden:
You
Deborah L. Davitt:
turn
Derrick Boden:
can
Deborah L. Davitt:
that
Derrick Boden:
turn
Deborah L. Davitt:
into
Derrick Boden:
that into
Deborah L. Davitt:
a weapon.
Derrick Boden:
a weapon. Yeah.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah, anyways,
Derrick Boden:
Anyways.
Deborah L. Davitt:
you can
Derrick Boden:
You
Deborah L. Davitt:
take
Derrick Boden:
can take
Deborah L. Davitt:
anything
Derrick Boden:
anything you
Deborah L. Davitt:
into a continuum. You can take anything from as
Derrick Boden:
want.
Deborah L. Davitt:
soft as space opera to as hard as realistic. And I think that
P.A. Cornell:
for
Deborah L. Davitt:
we
P.A. Cornell:
sure.
Deborah L. Davitt:
definitely have something that is a soft military sci-fi here.
P.A. Cornell:
Yeah, and you see
Deborah L. Davitt:
Derek,
P.A. Cornell:
a lot
Derrick Boden:
Sarah,
P.A. Cornell:
of
Deborah L. Davitt:
what
P.A. Cornell:
that
Deborah L. Davitt:
did
Derrick Boden:
what
P.A. Cornell:
too.
Deborah L. Davitt:
you?
Derrick Boden:
did you? Yeah. What you were
P.A. Cornell:
Sorry,
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah.
Derrick Boden:
saying.
P.A. Cornell:
what you were saying about like just misuse of technology, which you see a lot in military sci-fi.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah. Derek,
Derrick Boden:
Derek,
Deborah L. Davitt:
what did
Derrick Boden:
what
Deborah L. Davitt:
you
Derrick Boden:
did
Deborah L. Davitt:
like
Derrick Boden:
you
Deborah L. Davitt:
about
Derrick Boden:
like?
Deborah L. Davitt:
the story? And what did you dislike, if anything?
Derrick Boden:
Yeah, I enjoy, I love Cameron Hurley's stuff. I've read the novel as well and I would definitely recommend it. I think it's great. It really builds on some of the parts of the story that I really liked, which include one thing that I think is very common in science fiction as well as specifically in military science fiction is the tool of choosing
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
a specific technology. that is more advanced or new or different than what we have
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
now. And considering how it would affect, in the case of military science fiction, how it would affect war and how it would be used in war. And I think that's a very commonly used thing, but I think it's used very well in this particular situation, this whole concept of transporting people through light waves and whatnot. So I thought that was well done. I think that the focus on the psychological trauma of war in particular in this case of the use of this particular tool. Um, but as a reflection on war as a whole, um, I thought was done really well. Um, and I think it sets the tone. She sets the tone well by the first jump, um, resulting
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
in her hitting us or them hitting a civilian, I know they don't give away the, um, there's no gender of the, um, protagonist, but the, um, the protagonist hits a civilian, um, immediately. It's the first thing they do. And I think that is a great. introduction to just the horror
P.A. Cornell:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
of what you're going to be reading for the rest of the story. And I think
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
one thing that might have been touched on a bit earlier in prior in this conversation was accountability. And I think this story at its core has a lot I think Patty mentioned as well, there's a, at its core, there's a portion of it that deals with the accountability of the individual as well as everybody
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
involved, you can only turn a blind eye for so long, even if you are. just one individual in a big machine. If something
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
is happening that you feel is wrong, then you are complicit in it, you know, in some regards, even if it's in a small regards. The only thing that I was going to say that I'd like to say about it that I think that I think the book did actually a little bit better is that I do feel like for the sake of time, she did make the enemy, the aliens. I believe they were a little bit oversimplified in that they
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
were just solely the good guys by the end. And that it served its purpose, I think, but that also is somewhat two dimensional in my perspective. I, and
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
I think that in the book, she builds it out a little bit more to make that a little bit less, a little bit more ambiguous.
P.A. Cornell:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
They are certainly not as villainous as these corporate, you know, war, wartime machines. they're not necessarily just these perfect people that all they want is peace. And I think that only helps build a little bit more of a similitude because unfortunately, there are no such societies that we have
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah.
Derrick Boden:
come across
P.A. Cornell:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
yet. So
P.A. Cornell:
Yeah.
Derrick Boden:
it seems a little less likely. But yeah, overall, I really enjoy
P.A. Cornell:
They're
Derrick Boden:
the story.
P.A. Cornell:
in the future. Ha ha ha. Ha
Derrick Boden:
All right, yes.
P.A. Cornell:
ha.
Derrick Boden:
Ha ha
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah,
Derrick Boden:
ha.
Deborah L. Davitt:
well, I think that, well, past
P.A. Cornell:
Not if
Deborah L. Davitt:
results
P.A. Cornell:
I'm writing
Deborah L. Davitt:
are no guarantee
P.A. Cornell:
it.
Deborah L. Davitt:
of future results.
Derrick Boden:
Right. Yes, for sure.
P.A. Cornell:
I'm sorry.
Deborah L. Davitt:
There is such a thing as trend analysis and overall.
Derrick Boden:
Right. You never
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah,
Derrick Boden:
know.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah, it was a very voicey story.
P.A. Cornell:
Yeah,
Deborah L. Davitt:
We're
P.A. Cornell:
and
Deborah L. Davitt:
gonna
P.A. Cornell:
I love
Deborah L. Davitt:
move
P.A. Cornell:
the
Deborah L. Davitt:
now
P.A. Cornell:
part,
Deborah L. Davitt:
to
P.A. Cornell:
sorry
Deborah L. Davitt:
a re-
P.A. Cornell:
to cut you off,
Deborah L. Davitt:
Oh, sorry.
P.A. Cornell:
just
Deborah L. Davitt:
I'm
P.A. Cornell:
one last
Deborah L. Davitt:
sorry,
P.A. Cornell:
thought.
Deborah L. Davitt:
go for it!
P.A. Cornell:
I loved that, you know, these are soldiers that are trained to follow orders. And then by the end, they're questioning those orders. And I really loved that turnaround of it. You know, that I think wouldn't have worked if it wasn't a soldier telling the story. So anyway, that's just
David Stier:
Well,
P.A. Cornell:
the
Deborah L. Davitt:
All right, we are going to move now to the reading portion of our agenda. We're gonna turn it over to Jonathan Brazee. And what are you gonna be reading for us today?
jonathan:
Well, when you asked me to get something short to read, I didn't know what to
Deborah L. Davitt:
It can be a section of something.
jonathan:
do. I've got about five million words written. I thought about weaponized math. I thought about something a little bit, actually what my project I'm writing right now, which is kind of dark in the same way that Patty's is almost, but I didn't get permission from the publisher to do that. So I think I wanted to do something a little bit different. So I've got an excerpt from a story called a novella called Pogue. Pogue is slang for somebody who does not, who's not a combat marine or soldier. Someone who works in the
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
Excerpt removed for copyright reasons
jonathan:
Well, actually it started out with, there's a Coast Guard man who won a Medal of Honor in World War II.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
He was a conscientious objector.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yes, he did.
jonathan:
And I dedicated, actually I wanted to dedicate a book to him. So I wrote about a conscientious objector when this invasion started. And then I thought I wanted to do, Most military science fiction are infantry, maybe powered armor, stuff like that. I wanted to show military science fiction from other points of view. So I had
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
jonathan:
a conscientious objector who refused to fire a weapon because of his religion. I had this, a second lieutenant who was, a second lieutenant barely, knew nothing about the military. And three, a... older elderly veteran who is on the planet at the during the same invasion and everything starts at a festival when the invasion starts so I wanted these three I wanted to show war from a perspective other than infantry.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Okay, that was a great excerpt. I want to read the rest of it. We're going to go ahead and wind this up by asking you all if you have any upcoming or recent projects you'd like to talk about or promote. And I'm going to move over to Patty for this.
P.A. Cornell:
Okay, well I already mentioned that the body remembered remembers is going to be reprinted in the pseudopod. That'll be right around
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
P.A. Cornell:
veterans or remembrance day depending on which country you're in. And right now I have a story out in fantasy in their final issue called Once Upon a Time at the Oakmont, which is a fantasy story not surprisingly, about an unusual building that's not really in one set time period. So it's a real favourite of mine. That one actually will be live on the website on October 24th. So you can keep an eye out for that.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Okay, all right, we'll keep an eye out for that. Derek, anything upcoming or recent that you'd like to talk about or promote?
Derrick Boden:
Sure, yeah. I have a story coming out in an Apex anthology called Robotic Ambitions, which is an anthology on machine intelligence in robotic bodies. My story is called Built to Cheat and it's a lot of fun, I think. I would recommend getting the anthology. I think it's going to be a really great book. There's a ton of great names in there. And then I have, I got a story coming out in the last issue of Dark Matter magazine, which is exciting.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Oh.
Derrick Boden:
They ran me, they ran one of my stories in the very first issue of Dark Matter. And so it's kind of exciting to be able to bookend
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
that great three year career of theirs. And hopefully they've got some exciting new things coming out. I know Patty's been featured in some of their anthologies and they're, they're
Deborah L. Davitt:
Yeah.
Derrick Boden:
really great press. And then one other one that I would highlight is I've got a story coming out in Apex magazine called Down the Dust Hatch, which is about asteroid miners, and it's very bleak and dark, like a lot of things I write. That's all.
P.A. Cornell:
Nice.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Mm-hmm.
Derrick Boden:
Hmm.
Deborah L. Davitt:
And Jonathan, anything new or just recently out that you'd like to talk about?
jonathan:
Well, I have a short story called The Line in the Sand that was released a couple weeks ago in the expanding universe eight. My United Federation Marine Corps series that has been republished by Varian Publishing and the first book, Recruit came out Sunday. If anybody is interested in reading Weaponized math you can actually go back and get the paper back, but it's also available as a ebook novelette on Amazon and Yesterday I finished the first draft and sent her off to the editors of my new series Tendently, I don't know what it's going to be titled thinly name undead Marine, but that won't be out until May
Deborah L. Davitt:
Hmm. All right, that is a whole lot of stuff for people to go out and find and read. Next week on Shining Moon, we will take a step away from genre concerns to talk about the art and craft of world building. My guests will be Marie Brennan, Beth Cato, Rachel
jonathan:
Yeah.
Deborah L. Davitt:
Handley, and Kenneth Hite. Thank you all for having been here. It's been a delight speaking to all of you, and we are out.